Curse

RCyberW · Oct 22, 2010, 05:17 PM // 17:17

Who is the strongest villain/hero/God base on the story?

My friend and I were talking about, based on story who is the strongest? I thought obviously a God. But he raised the point that it took 16 people party to take out Kuvie and 12 party for Urgoz and Deep. And a standard party to defeat a dungeon/boss is 8. So what are your inputs on it?

RedDog91 · Oct 22, 2010, 06:21 PM // 18:21

If anything, Duncan the Black is the most difficult non-god boss to defeat.
Dhuum is hardest god to defeat, but thats not saying much since at the moment we can only fight 2 former gods.

Celestina · Oct 22, 2010, 06:23 PM // 18:23

Story wise Dhuum, since defeating him only means putting him back to sleep.

Zodiac Meteor · Oct 22, 2010, 06:27 PM // 18:27

Dhuum, although a built UW team can easily take him down. Being careless and not watching DP = GG

But it takes FOREVER to get that red bar up, seriously... wtf? It's an endurance match.

Duncan the Black is easy, he just summons a billion spirits because he is hax0r.

Rumi The Poet · Oct 22, 2010, 07:55 PM // 19:55

dhuum has never died and can even come to claim you in towns and outposts in your not a good lil boy or girl. if dhuum were to fight 1v1 any boss in GW there is no doubt in my mind who would win.. the pink elephant everytime.

Maver1ck87 · Oct 22, 2010, 08:42 PM // 20:42

In theory, abaddon, but u fight him in a weakened state.... in practise.... i reckon dhuum would get rolled by shiro cos of battle scars = gg. And infact, shiro would pretty much roll any of the other bosses thats my view anyways

RCyberW · Oct 22, 2010, 09:11 PM // 21:11

Sorry maybe I didn't make it clear, but strongest according to story. Since for Kuvie story wise you need 16 ppl to weaken her to snap her out. But for Duhmm, which most ppl seems to agree that "killing" him just puts him to sleep. And there's Abby who we fought in a weakened state. Any other inputs are welcomed ^^

Masmar · Oct 22, 2010, 09:21 PM // 21:21

Any of the gods can just smush you with their hand so them.

Konig Des Todes · Oct 22, 2010, 10:31 PM // 22:31

Please keep mechanics out of this - this includes functions of skills and party sizes. This is the lore forum, not Explorer's.

Anyways, as to the OP's question: In lore, Abaddon is the strongest. He is able to easily win when fighting against two gods on his own according to lore. Dhuum would probably be next in line, since he isn't killable, but being killed != being the strongest, so that's hard to say.

In both cases, we fight them in weakened states - where they're strong enough to just break free of their imprisonments- and we also got aid ("blessings" from the gods' avatars against Abaddon (sure there's no mechanic showing it, but that doesn't mean the case is the same for lore), and then the aid of the seven reapers). So what we fight probably isn't even half of the full strength, and we got aid at that.

I enjoy the thought that doing /dance in front of Abaddon removes the blessings the gods' avatars gave the PCs and hero/henchies, allowing Abaddon to instantly kill.

Masmar · Oct 22, 2010, 10:51 PM // 22:51

Dhuum isn't "not killable." It's just grenth wasn't strong enough, and since he wasn't, neither are you

Konig Des Todes · Oct 22, 2010, 11:11 PM // 23:11

And I wonder why Grenth wasn't strong enough.

Though that is a good point: Was Dhuum merely re-imprisoned due to him unable to be killed (as Dhuum claims), or is it to show that the PCs and Reapers were only able to weaken him?

Markus Clouser · Oct 25, 2010, 11:00 PM // 23:00

Interesting, I remember posting here. Seems like my post 'vanished'.
Let's try that again.

I believe Dhuum is, because even if he's imprisoned in The Underworld he can still show up in ANY place killing the.. uhm, lorewise...lorewise, the sinners!

Konig Des Todes · Oct 25, 2010, 11:05 PM // 23:05

Was deleted because it wasn't discussing lore but rather mechanics (banning). The showing up anywhere to ban (even if you say for sinners, which wouldn't be right - we got lore this year of Dhuum hunting down those who "cheat death") is not lore.

reaper with no name · Oct 28, 2010, 06:34 PM // 18:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Konig Des Todes

Please keep mechanics out of this - this includes functions of skills and party sizes. This is the lore forum, not Explorer's.

Anyways, as to the OP's question: In lore, Abaddon is the strongest. He is able to easily win when fighting against two gods on his own according to lore. Dhuum would probably be next in line, since he isn't killable, but being killed != being the strongest, so that's hard to say.

In both cases, we fight them in weakened states - where they're strong enough to just break free of their imprisonments- and we also got aid ("blessings" from the gods' avatars against Abaddon (sure there's no mechanic showing it, but that doesn't mean the case is the same for lore), and then the aid of the seven reapers). So what we fight probably isn't even half of the full strength, and we got aid at that.

I enjoy the thought that doing /dance in front of Abaddon removes the blessings the gods' avatars gave the PCs and hero/henchies, allowing Abaddon to instantly kill.

I'm not sure we can say that. We don't know whether he actually fought two gods in single combat (or which ones, for that matter). If he was fighting two gods in a war, it would make perfect sense for him to win considering he has an apparently limitless number of minions (the only other two Gods whose realms we visited were Grenth and Balth, and both of them had only a handful of servants who were also kind of busy with all the crap going on with Dhuum and Menzies).

And are we really sure Dhuum can't be killed? It was said that Grenth couldn't kill him, but at that point Grenth wasn't even the god of death. Plus, we all know what happens when you try to kill a god without being a mortal...

Konig Des Todes · Oct 28, 2010, 08:40 PM // 20:40

Whether he fought two gods - and which - doesn't matter. Official lore states he was able to defeat two gods in a 2v1 match.

And Abaddon only has Margonites (the demons don't seem aligned with any god and merely fight for those who's causing chaos - hence why we see dryders serve Dhuum, Abaddon, and no one - Titans are Dhuum's, as they're created by the Fury who's Dhuum's servant).

Quote:

Plus, we all know what happens when you try to kill a god without being a mortal...

Really? Have we ever saw a non-mortal kill a god? Do we even know that the PC was right when s/he said that Abaddon's power was going to destroy everything, or was it just looking like it would. The PC's are not omnipotent and has never witnessed what would of happened otherwise - it might have slowly dissipated for all our knowledge.

We've seen one situation where a mortal replaced a god by taking the god's power after the god's death, with the opinion of one human. This doesn't make it absolute, just the only observed situation.

reaper with no name · Oct 29, 2010, 11:13 PM // 23:13

If the demons serve whoever is causing chaos, that still makes them servants of Abaddon and Dhuum (who happen to be allies).

Besides, having tons of Margonites is a lot more than any of the other gods seem to have going for them.

If we are to assume that the PCs were wrong, and that it wasn't necessary for someone to replace Abaddon, then why did the Gods more or less tell Kormir to do so? We have nothing else to go on except to assume that Abaddon's death was going to destroy the world. Otherwise we might as well start assuming that Abaddon was never really a threat to the world in the first place (after all, did the Gods ever say he was? No, the mortals said he was).

Konig Des Todes · Oct 30, 2010, 02:40 AM // 02:40

Servants during Nightfall, not during the war where Abaddon was capable of defeating two gods.

Quote:

Originally Posted by reaper with no name

Besides, having tons of Margonites is a lot more than any of the other gods seem to have going for them.

Balthazar has an army of Eternals, which is only recently small due to traitorous and corrupted Eternals.

Quote:

Originally Posted by reaper with no name

If we are to assume that the PCs were wrong, and that it wasn't necessary for someone to replace Abaddon, then why did the Gods more or less tell Kormir to do so? We have nothing else to go on except to assume that Abaddon's death was going to destroy the world. Otherwise we might as well start assuming that Abaddon was never really a threat to the world in the first place (after all, did the Gods ever say he was? No, the mortals said he was).

It might be that the gods want there to always be a replacement. But it's possible that the energy wasn't going to destroy both the Realm of Torment and Tyria while still being harmful.

As to Abaddon being a threat or not - the question is whether it was intentional or unintentional, but he was a threat to Tyria. By siding with the demons, sending minions to corrupt Khilbron and Shiro (corrupt and rule/weaken the world not simply open up ways to free him), it is highly likely he was intentionally threatening Tyria. After all, he could very well have been trying to do more than just break free - that is, trying to take control over Tyria, as he did prior to his fall.

Mini Norn · Nov 03, 2010, 01:27 AM // 01:27

Dhuum doesn't stay at a constant strength, but grows stronger with each death in the Underworld. For that, I'm going to say Dhuum..

hahahi20 · Nov 05, 2010, 07:05 AM // 07:05

but there's that dino boss, Mobrin, Lord of the Marsh he hits 528 with power attack, i think he is the most strong

Konig Des Todes · Nov 05, 2010, 07:14 AM // 07:14

That's mechanics, hahahi. Mechanics is not lore.